SEVENTY YEARS IN PRINT!
LIONEL AND PATRICIA FANTHORPE
After an online conversation with the prolific married writing team of Lionel and Patricia Fanthorpe on the seventieth anniversary of Lionel’s first published story, Trevor Kennedy interviews Lionel, in a feature which also includes some of the illustrations from their newly released title,
New Supernatural Stories, plus, a chat with the editor and illustrator of the book, Stephen Jones and Randy Broecker!
Trevor Kennedy: Lionel (and Patricia), it’s a great pleasure to be interviewing you. Congratulations on your new book, New Supernatural Stories! How did this title come about and, for the benefit of the readers of this interview, could you tell us a little more about it please?
Lionel Fanthorpe: Our friend Steve Jones the editor commissioned us to write it in a style resembling the stories we wrote for Spencer’s Badger Books way back in the 1950s and 1960s. As investigators of the supernatural we also write non-fiction books and articles about the paranormal and the results of some of those real life investigations help to provide plots for our fiction. The title and cover design are very much based on the titles and covers of the books we wrote for Spencer’s more than half a century ago.
TK: Now married for an outstanding sixty-five years, how did you first meet and form what would soon become a very happy and successful partnership?
LF: One of my workmates was going out with Patricia’s sister, Sylvia, and asked me if I would like to have a meal with them and meet Sylvia’s younger sister, Patricia. On meeting, Patricia and I discovered that we had a lot of similar interests in many areas and especially in unsolved mysteries. We started going out together and married on September 7, 1957.
TK: Now a staggeringly impressive seventy years in print, how did you become involved with Badger Books in the early 1950s, Lionel, staying with them for around fifteen years, an extremely prolific writing period for you, authoring around one hundred and eighty books for them (many under pseudonyms), eighty-nine of which were written over three of these years, all the while holding down a teaching job at the same time! Was this a collaborative process involving you both and could you share with us some memories of this period please?
LF: I write poetry and had just written a parody of John Masefield’s ‘Sea Fever’, beginning with:
I must go back into space again,
To the lonely space and the stars,
And all I ask is a rocket ship
And a job to do on Mars . . .
I sent this to various publishers with no success, but Spencer’s wrote back saying that they didn’t do poetry but would I write a science fiction novel for them. Needless to say I accepted their offer with alacrity!
After we met, Patricia and I began doing everything together, sharing ideas for stories and working out plot summaries jointly. We needed my regular teaching salary to live on so our collaborative writing was done in the evenings and at weekends. Looking back at that period, we recall that there didn’t seem to be much time for anything else!
TK: From what I’ve read, your writing process is a little unusual. Is it true that you hide under a rug or blanket with a thesaurus and dictate the action, Lionel, while Patricia writes it all down? Did you write New Supernatural Stories in this way?
LF: When I was writing in the 1950s and ’60s it was a period when there was a great deal of pressure – the publishers would often send a commission and want the manuscript at the end of that week – I could function more creatively and effectively if I shut out the world by getting under a blanket and dictating into an old-fashioned reel-to-reel tape recorder. It’s now preserved in the Fanthorpe Archive at the Cardiff Metropolitan University Library, where it’s on loan to them along with a large group of our books! Another pressure factor back then was that Spencer’s would send me a pencil sketch of their planned cover design and ask me for a selection of titles appropriate to that cover design for them to choose from. They also asked for a list of cover blurbs and a back cover introduction. When they made their selections the titles did not always have much in common with the blurbs, and this made writing the back covers a singularly interesting task. Patricia was one of our typing team, but her main job in this area was driving round to the other audio typists with the next reel that I had dictated.
New Supernatural Stories was written very differently. Patricia and I discussed the plots and characters and I the typed the stories up on our computer. We had far more time to plan each story, and to revise them as necessary.
TK: Your work has often been described as “Fortean”, “pulp” and “supernatural”, while also combining themes of philosophy, religion, history, myths and legends, ancient cultures and more, in a very unique mix. But how would you describe your work and for what reason?
LF: It might be helpful here to give some details of our “Derl Wothor” trilogy which can be found on the Internet. It consists of The Black Lion, The Golden Tiger and Zotala the Priest. Each volume is centred on one of the heroic characters of the titles, and each has a very different personality. The Black Lion is an all-conquering interstellar warrior leader like Alexander the Great. He wants power and status. The Golden Tiger is a hedonist in search of beautiful girls, delicious food and drink and whatever else gives him pleasure. Zotala the Priest is a deeply thoughtful philosopher and theologian looking for the real meaning of life. A great many people seem to have all three characters hiding inside their personalities. Another important factor in human thought is a fascination with the mysterious and the unsolved. We have travelled to explore many mysterious locations and have written about them for Dundurn of Canada. Some examples are the creeping coffins of Barbados, the Oak Island Money Pit in Nova Scotia and Rennes-le-Château in southern France. We have also researched a number of mysterious objects in depth, including the Hope Diamond, the Turin Shroud and the Tarot.
‘The Terror Below the Sea’ by Randy Broecker
TK: To paraphrase your good selves, we most certainly live in a fascinating and strange universe, full of mystery and wonder. However, I have to admit to always having been conflicted regarding all things “Fortean” – I’m a little cynical and have never had a supernatural experience myself (much to my disappointment, I must add!), but I want to believe at the same time and always try to keep an open mind. Have you ever had any real-life supernatural experiences?
LF: The strangest experience occurred when our friend Bill Farrar died. He had been Head of Science at Gamlingay Village College when I was the Further Education Tutor there. A few years later, we had moved to Cardiff, and got the sad news that Bill was terminally ill. I drove over to see him near Gamlingay for several weekends and then got news that he had died and had asked for me to conduct his funeral service. The local priest, Father Ian, invited me over and late in the evening we were going through the service together, making notes of who would read which part. At that point, I saw Bill. He looked young again and radiantly happy. Ian could see and hear nothing of him. Bill asked me to tell Ian that Saint Juliana was absolutely right and then he vanished. Rather reluctantly – wondering what Ian’s reaction would be – I passed on the message to him. He reacted with such shock that he almost fell from his chair. “You can’t have known that,” he gasped. “It was the last message I gave Bill before he died. I told him that Juliana had had visions of being in Heaven and had said that all things would be well.”
Another very strange experience happened in the Catacomb of Saint Callixtus in Rome. As we went round with a guided party, I moved secretly into a side passageway to take some photos as photography was forbidden in this catacomb. Patricia carried on with the guide and the main party. I felt a hand on my shoulder from behind me and thought it was either a mugger or a guide from another party. I turned round and saw a tall figure wearing a black cone-shaped hat and cloak that reached the ground. There was no sense of danger or hostility from the figure, but rather a sense of being welcomed and blessed. After a moment or two it faded away, and I rejoined the main party.
TK: Based on what I’ve read of your work, I have to say that I’ve always found it very positive with good triumphing over evil in the end almost every time, love and common decency winning the day essentially. I feel this is very much a reflection of who you are as people. Would this be a fair point? Are you generally positive and hopeful people?
LF: That is a very acceptable compliment: many thanks. Our attitude to life is reflected in what we write as you have analysed. If anything, Patricia is more positive and optimistic than I am, but we both do our best to look on the bright side.
TK: Lionel, you are also an ordained Anglican priest for the Church of Wales and a minister for the Universal Life Church. Could you tell us about this aspect of your life please, along with the “Do that which is right” doctrine of the Universal Life Church?
‘The Secret of the Stone’ by Randy Broecker
LF: I was a priest in the Church in Wales for many years, but I am no longer with them. I work independently and do my best to follow the doctrine of “Do that which is right”. Trying to live by that teaching requires a deep and careful analysis of what “right” really is. I would suggest that helping those in need, in whatever way such help is needed, is the best form of morality.
TK: In my early-twenties, during the mid-to-late 1990s, I really enjoyed Channel 4’s Fortean TV, which you presented, Lionel, based on the long-running Fortean Times, of course. How did you come to present this series and could you go into more detail about your other television and radio work also?
LF: We had had several books of unsolved mysteries published, and a friend our ours was having a drink and chat in a pub when a TV producer participating in the conversation asked our friend if he knew of anyone who could present a TV programme. My name came up, and soon afterwards we got a phone call inviting me to an audition. That went successfully and I was invited to present Fortean TV. The series was made by Rapido.
Some time later I was approached by Dick Pawelko, a TV producer and director who did a lot of programmes in Wales, and I did a lot of unsolved mystery programmes for him. These included a quiz for which I was the question master, and a series called Talking Stones. I also presented a series called Castles of Horror and a programme about the mysterious wisdom of Nostradamus. I was also invited to do a number of radio interviews for George Noory in the USA on his Coast to Coast show, as well as some broadcasts for Radio Kent.
TK: So what’s up next for Lionel and Patricia Fanthorpe? Is there a second volume of New Supernatural Stories in the pipeline, perhaps?
LF: We’d be very happy to do a further volume of New Supernatural Stories, if the publisher wants one. In a different area of our work we have been currently commissioned to do a serious academic volume on philosophy, theology and the meaning of life for Walters and Jones Productions.
TK: As a final question, what would you say is the secret to a long, happy and productive life and marriage?
LF: Teaching, writing, lecturing and making radio and TV shows all benefit from being half of a loving partnership in which all aspects of the work can be discussed, analysed, developed and improved. In a loving partnership there is the vitally important aspect of caring for your partner and wanting to do everything possible to keep him, or her, happy, safe and well. Helping and facilitating your partner’s enjoyment of life, and making it possible for him, or her, to participate in things they want to do is vitally important as part of a happy relationship. For example, Patricia likes folk dancing and badminton, and I enjoy judo and weightlifting.
There are also activities that we enjoy together such as watching TV quiz shows and having our own family quizzes with our daughters and sons-in-law using Skype.
TK: Thank you so much for speaking to us at Phantasmagoria – it’s been a pleasure and all the very best with the new book!
NEW SUPERNATURAL STORIES:
THE EDITOR AND THE ILLUSTRATOR
Stephen Jones signs Trevor Kennedy’s copy of New Supernatural Stories at ChillerCon, Scarborough, May 2022
Trevor Kennedy chats to Stephen Jones and Randy Broecker . . .
THE EDITOR: STEPHEN JONES
Trevor Kennedy: As always, it’s great to chat, Stephen! Ever prolific, New Supernatural Stories is one of your recent releases. Lionel Fanthorpe was telling us in his above interview that you commissioned him and Patricia to write a new collection of stories in the vein of the Badger books they penned back in the 1950s and ’60s, but what originally gave you the idea to approach the Fanthorpes about this project? Were you a reader and fan of the Badger books yourself?
Stephen Jones: Not originally, no. The Badger horror and science fiction books began in the 1950s and I didn’t really get into reading genre fiction until the late 1960s. To be honest, even then, Badger’s output was “looked down upon” by most readers and collectors and, anyway, I was busy discovering American authors like H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith. I didn’t become aware of many of our home-grown British talent until some years later.
As lovely as it is for Lionel and Patricia to give me the credit, I originally approached them about a reprint collection of stories from Badger’s Supernatural Stories series – as you know, many of them were written under pseudonyms, and I thought that it would be fun to do a kind of “Best of” volume. However, as it turned out, Lionel and Patricia were already involved in reprinting a lot of their early work and they suggested to me that we do a collection of all-new stories in the Badger “style”. Obviously, I thought it was a terrific idea and jumped at the opportunity.
When I pitched the idea over the phone to Pete Crowther at PS Publishing, he stopped me before I had even finished the first sentence and said, “You had me when you said ‘Lionel Fanthorpe’ . . .!”
TK: When did you first meet Lionel and Patricia and was this your first time working with them?
SJ: I first met Lionel (and probably Patricia) at various conventions back in the late 1980s. He’s a very affable person and a terrific raconteur. Actually, it’s not the first time we’ve worked together – Kim Newman and I commissioned him to write a piece for our 1988 volume Horror: 100 Best Books. (For the record, he recommended The Dark Tower by C.S. Lewis.)
In recent years I’ve been picking up some of the Badger Books when I can and looking at them with a new air of respect. I wrote to Lionel to ask him to sign a few for me and one thing led to another and here we are . . .
TK: Your Foreword in New Supernatural Stories is subtitled ‘Britain’s Last Pulp Writer’, in reference to Lionel, of course. For the benefit of those who haven’t read it yet, could you tell us some more about this please and why Lionel is considered the last pulp author from our shores?
SJ: As anyone who knows me is aware, I strongly believe in honouring those authors who helped shaped our genre while they are still amongst us, and can participate in the project and enjoy the rewards. I felt that Lionel had been unjustly ignored by horror fans because of the reputation Badger Books still has in some quarters. I wanted to redress that balance somewhat.
During the 1950s and ’60s, Lionel (with Patricia’s help), churned out literally hundreds of short stories and novels under a myriad of often bizarre-sounding pen-names. These were written incredibly quickly and prolifically – often based around a piece of art that was going to be used on the cover – to meet the publisher’s tight deadlines, for very little money. In fact – just like the American pulp writers of the 1930s and ’40s who contributed to magazines such as Weird Tales.
Once I had made that connection in my head – and the original Supernatural Stories, despite being published in paperback format, was really a monthly magazine – the whole thing came together, and that was my way as an editor into doing the collection.
TK: In a paragraph or so, how would you describe Lionel and Patricia’s stories within this new collection?
SJ: A lot of fun! We’re not talking high literature here. I was very aware of that going into the project. But just as they did with Badger all those years ago, Lionel and Patricia came up with some incredibly off-the-wall ideas for stories, and my advice as editor was we should just go with whatever they wanted.
I think that was also fun for Randy to illustrate – he had the job of visualising some of these often quirky monsters and did a marvellous job in my opinion. His artistic contribution – and he’s illustrated every story plus various spot pieces – makes the book very special indeed.
I also wanted the look of the collection to recall the old Badger Books, and to that end I worked closely with my regular design partner, Michael Marshall Smith, to make the covers of the trade paperback and the signed, slipcased hardcover very different from each other. If you compare the two volumes, the trade paperback looks bumped and worn and stained, just like many of the old Badger books do these days, while the limited hardcover is shiny mint. Again, it was just another level of fun and respect for the project.
TK: Never one to reveal your hand too early, can you give us any clues as to what future projects you have lined up?
SJ: Well, as you may have noticed, New Supernatural Stories is branded as belonging to “Stephen Jones’ Masters of Horror Series”. This came about after Pete Crowther approached me about editing a line of books for PS Publishing.
I had already had my own mass-market paperback line (Raven Books) back in the early 1990s, and I didn’t relish the idea of getting on that treadmill again. So I thanked him kindly for his offer, but turned him down. However, the more I got to thinking about it, I realised that I already had a series of books with PS, and it might make sense to bring them all under one umbrella title.
For the past several years now I’ve been doing a series of retrospective books with them, showcasing the work of such older authors as Basil Copper, R. Chetwynd-Hayes, Aidan Chambers and others. Lionel and Patricia’s collection obviously also fell into that category, as did a number of other books that I’m currently working on for PS.
I talked the idea over with the lovely folks at PS and they agreed it would be a good idea. So during the next couple of years we are bringing a number of the books back into print in new editions, and these will all be branded with the “Masters of Horror” banner – in fact, R. Chetwynd-Hayes’ Gaslight, Ghosts & Ghouls has already been reissued in trade paperback for the first time with that series title.
Looking forward, several of the Basil Copper titles are being reissued, including Basil Copper: A Life in Books in a significantly revised and expanded softcover edition, and Randy and I are working on a collection of Robert Silverberg stories. There are also a couple of very exciting anniversary projects for next year that we want to keep under wraps for now.
TK: Thanks for your time, Stephen – always very much appreciated!
SJ: As always, Trevor, thank you for asking.
Frontispiece for New Supernatural Stories by Randy Broecker
THE ILLUSTRATOR: RANDY BROECKER
Out of his skull! Artist Randy Broecker
Trevor Kennedy: Randy, it’s always a pleasure. You’ve been very kind in giving us permission to reprint some of your illustrations for Lionel and Patricia Fanthorpe’s New Supernatural Stories in this issue of Phantasmagoria. They’re wonderful artworks which I feel really complement the stories and book overall. How did you first become involved with this title?
Randy Broecker: Nice to be back within the friendly confines of Phantasmagoria Trevor, and glad you liked the art. I became involved – as frequently happens – via conversations with Stephen Jones. We had been talking about the Badger paperback books – especially the “Supernatural” series, and Steve had the idea of putting together a sort of “Greatest Hits” selection of stories hand-picked by Lionel, with illustrations by me. Although both Steve and I had been picking up copies of the old Badger paperbacks in recent years, ironically we used to see so many of them on a few shelves in the long-gone-but-not-forgotten UK bookstore Fantasy Centre in Islington. Had we bought them then, we would probably have a complete run by now!
TK: You have illustrated all fifteen stories in the collection, along with a frontispiece and several “spot” illos. There is obviously a lot of work involved with an undertaking such as this. Could you tell us about some of the challenges you faced when working on it?
RB: Originally I was going to illustrate as many as I could, but not all. I did not think I would have the time. When Steve contacted Lionel about his picking favourite stories, he amazingly countered by suggesting he write new ones! As Steve was working on another project at the time, he would send me each story as he received it from the Fanthorpes. That way I had a good jump on the book before Steve’s involvement, and I managed – at least for a while, to stay ahead of the game. And I’ll tell you, those stories were coming in fast! What also made it less of a challenge, and more fun for me, was that there was so much I could have done for each one!
TK: When you were planning your illustration for each story, how did you decide which segment of it to bring to life?
RB: As I hinted at above, each story had so many moments I wanted to interpret. The challenge – if you want to call it that – was to settle on just one. I knew I wasn’t about to do more than one per story! With that in mind I went for the ones that I felt I could do the best justice to within my capabilities. I will say that time got away from me towards the end, and I went for a very simplistic approach on one of the pictures – though I’m not going to say which one!
TK: This year marks Lionel Fanthorpe’s seventieth in print – a staggering achievement! Could you give us a few of your thoughts on Lionel and Patricia’s vast body of work and service to the genre please?
RB: Well, I’m certainly impressed with them, and their accomplishments! Theirs is a pretty amazing story – the amount of work they did, under various pseudonyms, and their method of writing is pretty unique. Not to mention the other hats that Lionel has worn. I’d really love to see their story as the subject of a documentary. The Badger books would just be one part of a fascinating life together.
TK: I’ve been viewing your work for many years now, Randy, including your very memorable cover piece for this year’s PS Publishing edition of Holes for Faces by Ramsey Campbell. I think it’s fair to say you’ve been extremely prolific over the decades. Any plans on slowing down yet?
‘No Fixed Abode’ by Randy Broecker
RB: Prolific might be too strong a word, Trevor. I can’t say I’ve ever been that, but I really enjoy what I do, and I’ve been lucky enough to be kept busy at it with various projects, that seem to pop up just when I’ve finished one. I can’t complain.
TK: As an extension to the previous question, are you working on anything currently or have anything upcoming?
RB: Well, I just finished the cover art for By the Light of My Skull, a collection by Ramsey Campbell coming soon from PS Publishing. I’ve also been working on a few private commissions, and I believe Mr. Jones and I may be working together again in the near future.
TK: Thanks for chatting to us today, Randy!
